tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post3874933300876039729..comments2023-09-27T02:46:21.569-07:00Comments on Deacons Today: Musings on Diakonia and Diaconate: A Liturgical Rant: Wearing Underwear Over OuterwearDeacon William T. Ditewig, Ph.D.http://www.blogger.com/profile/11525431509279159558noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post-4957306904498938012011-08-30T11:25:48.287-07:002011-08-30T11:25:48.287-07:00I was once told the bishop wears a dalmatic under ...I was once told the bishop wears a dalmatic under a chasible when installing deacons. Is the true?Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07952167305466571798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post-83787864893510445202011-08-22T02:53:18.220-07:002011-08-22T02:53:18.220-07:00In formation (and my practice today), I was taught...In formation (and my practice today), I was taught that the Dalmatic is a Eucharistic vestment and is to be worn by the deacon only during Mass; never to be worn when a deacon officiates at a wedding, a funeral vigil or a baptism outside of Mass.<br /><br />Someone correct me if I'm wrong.Terryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18441151472899034773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post-73874249843025266522011-08-12T08:27:01.035-07:002011-08-12T08:27:01.035-07:00Reminds me of Sue Ellen Mischke, heiress to the Oh...Reminds me of Sue Ellen Mischke, heiress to the Oh Henry candy bar fortune, on Seinfeld.<br /><br />My family moved when I was growing up, so I attended three Catholic grade schools, two Catholic high schools, and a Catholic college. I have belonged to, and been an active member, of nine parishes. I have never, as far as I know, been to a mass with an MC. What is the MC's role?Tim Tarpeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18218778317754129941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post-1231404590456731892011-08-09T21:36:59.787-07:002011-08-09T21:36:59.787-07:00Deacon Steve,
Oy. . .
In the "old" day...Deacon Steve,<br /><br />Oy. . .<br /><br />In the "old" days, it was not uncommon to see a priest-MC (in cassock and surplice) put on a stole to help distribute communion. This practice was (supposedly) eliminated following the Council. People are supposed to exercise one function at Mass and then do it "solely but completely."<br /><br />The liturgical MC, despite the impression given in many places, is properly a LAY ministry. I first served as an MC at age 15 as a high school seminarian home for Holy Week. Now, while many bishops persist in having clerics serve as MCs, many are now training lay persons to exercise that role.<br /><br />Furthermore, the role of the MC grew in popularity when the liturgical role of the deacon was in decline.<br /><br />So:<br /><br />1) Clerics ought to exercise the duties of their order (bishop, deacon, presbyter) at Mass, and not take on a role which rightly belongs to the laity;<br /><br />2) IF a presbyter/deacon serves as MC, he should do so WITHOUT the liturgical vestments of his order, since he's not there exercising that order. The CoB, I hope, will be corrected in future editions; after all, we don't ask priest-MCs to wear stole and chasuble when THEY MC!<br /><br />3) And, finally, a cleric-MC should NOT put on a stole to help distribute communion. If the ceremony is important enough to need an MC in the first place, then there must be sufficient ministers of communion lurking someplace!<br /><br />God bless,<br /><br />BillDeacon William T. Ditewig, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11525431509279159558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post-38079952416415105752011-08-08T15:05:40.714-07:002011-08-08T15:05:40.714-07:00It would help if I included the url!!!
http://www....It would help if I included the url!!!<br />http://www.fisheaters.com/vestments.htmlBarryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234034111126169326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post-73151736037118491282011-08-08T15:04:46.779-07:002011-08-08T15:04:46.779-07:00I have now found this website. I would appreciate ...I have now found this website. I would appreciate it if somebody who knows this stuff would give it a once over. It looks genuine to me but I have learnt the hard way not to believe everything I read on the web. This Blog excepted of course :-)Barryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234034111126169326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post-3624406230174366612011-08-08T13:20:32.502-07:002011-08-08T13:20:32.502-07:00Barry,
As an acolyte in Northern Virginia 50 years...Barry,<br />As an acolyte in Northern Virginia 50 years ago, we received a special vestments missal, ‘Habits Primer’, which covered everything mass participants, from parishioner to Pope, were expected to wear all year. It was an thick old book, as big as an ordinary, large print missal, which all the boys in my cohort had to share. It was bright blue leather yapp binding and gilt encirclinga, but I am not confident of my memory of the title or other details. Obviously, vestments have changed over the years, but if you can find a copy, it might be a touch stone and possibly rationales for some deacon paraphernalia.<br />Enjoy the journey homeward.JRBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13031047877049635052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post-36642356071845506932011-08-08T09:21:48.264-07:002011-08-08T09:21:48.264-07:00As a would be Deacon (about to start the second ye...As a would be Deacon (about to start the second year of "formal" formation in the UK) I would welcome a comprehensive guide to liturgical dress. Not just for Deacons but for Priests and bishops as well. Any recommendations?Barryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234034111126169326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post-47784220994193267752011-08-03T14:09:09.493-07:002011-08-03T14:09:09.493-07:00As far as I am concerned, the deacon and the presi...As far as I am concerned, the deacon and the presider are as one at the altar, each with his own role. The ministry of sacrifice together with the ministry of service while at the altar offers a more complete picture of Jesus Who offers Himself in charity.<br />In that regard, matching vestments presents a unified picture that a his and his parts.jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02138196426678865232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post-28814163871800823162011-08-03T13:40:01.824-07:002011-08-03T13:40:01.824-07:00"Kids these days! Backward hats and walking o..."Kids these days! Backward hats and walking oddly." More examples of distraction from pursuit of faith and spiritual growth, by the convenient but distracting issues of the architecture of religion. I don't dismiss the comfort or healing value of ritual at all levels of spiritual endeavor, nor the importance of social development of every religion. Although a tightrope is a weak analogy for the journey of spiritual and earthly life, personal balance is an important attractor.JRBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13031047877049635052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post-57925549746559315772011-08-03T13:04:42.429-07:002011-08-03T13:04:42.429-07:00Bill, I have not seen this particular over\under o...Bill, I have not seen this particular over\under or under\over practice here in Atlanta.<br /><br />While in another diocese I did observe a deacon serving as MC (in cassock and surplus) put on his stole during the distribution of communion and then take it off after the vessels were purified. I was curious about the practice but didn't see anything about it in the GIRM or Ceremonial of Bishops. Did I miss it in one of those, was he "freelancing" from a vestment perspective or what. <br /><br />I did see in the CoB that generally even while serving as MC the deacon should vest in his dalmatic. The practice in our archdiocese is cassock and surplus but never adding the stole.<br /><br />Just curious....<br /><br />Steve -Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post-12847411090900494402011-08-03T13:04:26.185-07:002011-08-03T13:04:26.185-07:00Bill, I have not seen this particular over\under o...Bill, I have not seen this particular over\under or under\over practice here in Atlanta.<br /><br />While in another diocese I did observe a deacon serving as MC (in cassock and surplus) put on his stole during the distribution of communion and then take it off after the vessels were purified. I was curious about the practice but didn't see anything about it in the GIRM or Ceremonial of Bishops. Did I miss it in one of those, was he "freelancing" from a vestment perspective or what. <br /><br />I did see in the CoB that generally even while serving as MC the deacon should vest in his dalmatic. The practice in our archdiocese is cassock and surplus but never adding the stole.<br /><br />Just curious....<br /><br />Steve -Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post-84807429780447163382011-08-01T15:56:58.734-07:002011-08-01T15:56:58.734-07:00Bill:
I was ordained a few years before you but b...Bill:<br /><br />I was ordained a few years before you but bow to your wisdom on most things diaconal. This idea of constantly wearing a Dalmatic is -- in my mind -- more rubrical than sensible.<br /><br />Here's my approach:<br /><br />--Dalmatics on "High Holy Days" -- such as Christmas (midnight and day); Easter (both Vigil and Day) and Pentecost.<br /><br />--Dalmatics on any ceremony with your local ordinary -- whether at the cathedral or not -- whether "high-holyday" or not.<br /><br />--Stole overlay on a better quality alb on the everyday Sunday "Deacon of the Gospel" assignment.<br /><br />--I usually do not use a Dalmatic at a funeral unless I am presiding at a ceremony outside of Mass but in a church.<br /><br />--I have never used a Dalmatic at a wedding nor a baptism nor a free-standing Communion Service.<br /><br />Part of it was that my generation (I was ordained in 1978) was never issued any instructions about the importance of a Dalmatic; part of it was that the parishes I worked at could rarely afford deacons' stoles much less Dalmatics; part of it was that we did not have experts like you hounding us to get authentic.<br /><br />Only the very best of blessings!<br /><br />Deacon Norb from Ohio<br /><br />Is this changing -- I think so but it will take time for those classes ordiained after 2000 -- the ones who have a more "gut-level" understanding of this issue -- to make their impact.Norberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10464878965952469636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post-66883952570016398822011-07-29T11:39:54.244-07:002011-07-29T11:39:54.244-07:00Dear Diakonos,
Yes, kneeling immediately after th...Dear Diakonos,<br /><br />Yes, kneeling immediately after the Sanctus is too soon, you are correct.<br /><br />On the other hand, it is not absolute that we kneel at all, of course. The GIRM says "as a rule," which conveys the sense that there are exceptions to that rule. Many of our bishops don't want us to kneel since we can't get down, and then back up, easily enough. What's even more important is that such difficulties go far beyond an inconvenience for the aging knees of many deacons: it can be very distracting from the liturgical action. Part of the reason for deacons to kneel at that part of the Mass is to assist in focusing on the liturgical action going on, and if we're falling all over the place, we distract from that. In that case, it's better to stay standing.<br /><br />God bless,<br /><br />BillDeacon William T. Ditewig, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11525431509279159558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post-35475307990757060472011-07-29T11:35:50.690-07:002011-07-29T11:35:50.690-07:00Dear Fred,
If you look at the picture I posted wi...Dear Fred,<br /><br />If you look at the picture I posted with this entry, look at the vestment on the left. The garment shown UNDER the diagonal deacon stole (ugh) is the dalmatic. It is a sleeved garment, in the same liturgical color as the priest's chasuble. <br /><br />God bless,<br /><br />BillDeacon William T. Ditewig, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11525431509279159558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post-16514255820887251502011-07-29T11:16:56.243-07:002011-07-29T11:16:56.243-07:00@Fred: Here you go...@Fred: <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=WVlKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA133#v=onepage&q&f=false" rel="nofollow">Here you go...</a>Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01819831282677092730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post-59337168359410779592011-07-29T11:14:23.715-07:002011-07-29T11:14:23.715-07:00Hey Skipper...when is the junk-on-the-bunk and IG ...Hey Skipper...when is the junk-on-the-bunk and IG inspection again? :-DFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01819831282677092730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post-15768361808624153572011-07-29T08:41:44.172-07:002011-07-29T08:41:44.172-07:00what's a dalmatic look like?what's a dalmatic look like?Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01262662173303042998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post-21741456482666081642011-07-29T08:38:37.998-07:002011-07-29T08:38:37.998-07:00typo: transubstantiationtypo: transubstantiationDiakonoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16896251554818257122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2595608247665759734.post-5301852280322637442011-07-29T08:37:30.315-07:002011-07-29T08:37:30.315-07:00Very nice. Thanks and let's hope this proper u...Very nice. Thanks and let's hope this proper use of the dalmatic catches on.<br /><br />Another liturgical error I have noticed is the deacon kneeling immediately after the Sanctus and then standing after the Mysterium Fidei. Aren't we supposed to kneel only from the Epiclesis through the elevation of the chalice out of respectful emphasis towards the Holy Spirit's transubstantion of the eucharistic elements?Diakonoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16896251554818257122noreply@blogger.com